Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

04/25/2006 05:00 PM Senate STATE AFFAIRS


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05:04:51 PM Start
05:05:08 PM HJR27
05:34:35 PM SB293
06:21:04 PM Confirmation – Scott Nordstrand, Commissioner, Department of Administration
06:21:33 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Time Change --
*+ SB 293 PUBLIC EMPLOYEES'/TEACHERS' RETIREMENT TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 293 Out of Committee
+ HJR 27 ALLOTMENTS FOR NATIVE VIETNAM VETERANS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHJR 27(MLV) Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
         SB 293-PUBLIC EMPLOYEES'/TEACHERS' RETIREMENT                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:34:35 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR THERRIAULT announced SB 293  to be up for consideration. He                                                               
explained that  he intended to  put the  issue on the  record and                                                               
then  forward  the bill  to  the  Finance Committee  for  further                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KIM  ELTON, sponsor,  explained that  SB 293  extends, to                                                               
July 1,  2008, the  effective date  for SB 141,  which is  a bill                                                               
that creates  a Tier IV  defined contribution  retirement system.                                                               
The reasons for  extending the effective date are that  SB 141 is                                                               
not well  understood and  that it's  inadvisable to  move forward                                                               
with implementation prior to a mandated IRS review.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  stated that the House  "fix it" bill has  grown to                                                               
34  pages  in  an  effort  to address  the  issues  that  weren't                                                               
considered  in  SB  141.  Some of  the  changes  are  fundamental                                                               
including:  addressing  the  potential   for  double  dipping  on                                                               
disability; identifying where death  and disability benefits come                                                               
from; survivor  benefits; and  qualifying for  both PERS  and TRS                                                               
before  getting access  to a  health  retirement account.  Noting                                                               
that  amendments were  added on  the  House floor,  one of  which                                                               
would extend the  effective date for a year, he  asserted that it                                                               
would be  counterintuitive to believe  that more  issues wouldn't                                                               
arise over time.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  explained that when  a retirement  system changes,                                                               
the IRS must  conduct a review of the plan  details and, he said,                                                               
it would  be presumptuous to  think that  the IRS review  will go                                                               
smoothly if the  Legislature is still trying to fix  the bill. SB
293 isn't an effort to do away  with the new Tier IV; it's simply                                                               
an effort  to slow  implementation until  the bill  is understood                                                               
and the problems are fixed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He advised  that extending the  effective date comes at  no cost;                                                               
it does  not implicate the  unfunded liability or  increase costs                                                               
to  the  employer.  He  encouraged the  committee  to  pass  this                                                               
important  component  on to  the  Finance  Committee for  further                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:42:03 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN  ALCANTRA,  Government  Relations Director  for  NEA-Alaska,                                                               
testified that  the bill is  necessary because of the  many flaws                                                               
associated with SB 141. He  advised that NEA-Alaska would have an                                                               
actuary  from  Washington  D.C. available  over  the  weekend  to                                                               
address  the issues  that are  important to  lawmakers and  urged                                                               
members to  move the  bill to the  Finance Committee  for further                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE LUDWIG,  Business Manager for  the Alaska  Public Employees                                                               
Association and the American Federation  of Teachers, stated that                                                               
he  was also  speaking for  the  Alaska AFL/CIO.  He opined  that                                                               
because SB 141 has many problems  and errors and because the plan                                                               
does not have IRS approval, it  would be dangerous to go forward.                                                               
Doing  so could  result in  up to  a 20  percent increase  in tax                                                               
liability on  employees' income. He  urged the committee  to pass                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:47:33 PM                                                                                                                    
VERNON  MARSHAL,   Lobbyist  for   the  Public   Safety  Employee                                                               
Association (PSEA),  testified in support  of SB 293.  He related                                                               
concerns  from   both  employer  and  employee   standpoints  and                                                               
stressed that  additional time is  needed so that:  new employees                                                               
are assured of  entering a qualified plan that  meets IRS review;                                                               
new  employees  entering  PERS and  TRS  service  understand  the                                                               
workings of the new Alaska  401K; and employers are knowledgeable                                                               
regarding the  benefits and structure  of the system and  its new                                                               
accounting. This  information is  necessary to ensure  a seamless                                                               
transition from one retirement system to another.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MARSHALL reported  that PSEA  recognizes that  Alaska has  a                                                               
shortage of troopers  and it views the retirement plan  as a tool                                                               
to attract  qualified applicants.  Furthermore, it  believes that                                                               
proper marketing of available positions  is vital and that higher                                                               
levels of information will be required than in past.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Using  proper  due  diligence  will   reduce  ambiguity  and  the                                                               
possibility of  error and misunderstanding.  Investing additional                                                               
time  is a  prudent step  to ensure  that a  proper workforce  is                                                               
built in  Alaska so  that the  people can  get business  done and                                                               
provide service, he concluded.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CAREY REARDON, Anchorage Teacher,  testified in support of moving                                                               
the  bill to  the Finance  Committee for  the reasons  previously                                                               
stated. She described  SB 141 as a bill that  was passed in haste                                                               
and  now requires  fixing. She  urged the  committee to  take the                                                               
same amount of time for state  employees and teachers as is being                                                               
taken with the oil tax structure.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:54:29 PM                                                                                                                    
MELANIE MILLHORN, Director, Division  of Retirement and Benefits,                                                               
testified    that   the    administration   opposes    delay   of                                                               
implementation  of  SB 141.  She  recapped  SB  141 and  said  it                                                               
recognizes  the key  factors underlying  the unfunded  liability,                                                               
which are:  rising healthcare costs;  loss of  investment income;                                                               
and change in actuarial assumptions.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SB 141 redesigned  the medical benefit in a way  that aligns with                                                               
other state  pension programs and  the national  trend associated                                                               
with receiving  medical benefits. She elaborated  that 75 percent                                                               
of the current costs for  medical benefits accrue from the normal                                                               
retirement age of  55 to 65 for Tier I  while other state pension                                                               
systems  have  50  percent  of   the  costs  coming  from  normal                                                               
retirement age of 65.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN  reported  that Buck  Consultants,  which  provides                                                               
actuarial  services  to  Alaska  and some  300  other  state  and                                                               
government  pension  systems, states  that  Alaska  is its  first                                                               
client that cannot  increase the deductible, the  co-pay, and the                                                               
prescription drug costs because  they are protected under Article                                                               
XII,  Section 7  of the  Alaska State  Constitution. She  related                                                               
that other states are able to make changes as costs increase.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
When PERS and TRS employers  were surveyed in 2004 regarding tier                                                               
redesign, those  stakeholders indicated that they  didn't want to                                                               
shoulder  the  rising healthcare  costs  and  loss of  investment                                                               
income. Their voice is important, she said.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN  advised that  delaying  implementation  of SB  141                                                               
would  add  approximately 8,800  new  members  to the  retirement                                                               
system who  would have  constitutionally protected  benefits. The                                                               
medical  normal  cost already  exceeds  the  pension normal  cost                                                               
making it  clear that  the escalation of  healthcare costs  are a                                                               
primary driver.  SB 141,  if implemented on  July 1,  2006, deals                                                               
with that issue.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN   addressed  the  comments  related   to  IRS  plan                                                               
determination process  saying that  Ice Miller  LLP was  hired to                                                               
use its  tax expertise  to review  the provisions  of SB  141 and                                                               
conform the  benefits in  the way  the Legislature  intended. The                                                               
division  did file  for plan  determination in  a timely  fashion                                                               
thereby  preserving  the opportunity  to  move  forward and  make                                                               
changes  to  provide  beneficial  tax  benefits  to  members  and                                                               
employers. She  assured the  committee that  there is  no adverse                                                               
consequence in  the sequence of  events or the measures  that the                                                               
division  has  undertaken in  concert  and  partnership with  Ice                                                               
Miller.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
She asked for  the opportunity to move forward  and implement the                                                               
plan  in accordance  with legislative  intent  from the  previous                                                               
session and not add additional  unfunded liability to the pension                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:02:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WAGONER remarked  he found  it hard  to comprehend  that                                                               
delaying  the  program for  the  requested  time wouldn't  add  a                                                               
burden to the state.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN responded  the fiscal note speaks  to the division's                                                               
operational costs  and not  to the cost  of adding  an additional                                                               
8,800 members and their dependents if implementation is delayed.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER   questioned  whether  someone  is   working  to                                                               
determine the additional cost if implementation is delayed                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN replied  the actuaries  haven't  been charged  with                                                               
that  task  as  yet,  but  it could  be  necessary  depending  on                                                               
development of SB 293.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  asked  Ms.  Millhorn,  as  administrator  of  the                                                               
program, if she  would outline the difference in  future costs to                                                               
the retirement system for Tier III versus Tier IV employees.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN replied  SB 141 redesigned the benefit  plan to make                                                               
costs going  forward predictable  for employers  and it  was very                                                               
generous.  Under SB  141 the  fixed and  guaranteed benefits  for                                                               
death and disability and healthcare  have been redesigned so that                                                               
costs going  forward are known.  With Tier III members  the costs                                                               
are  all  defined  benefit  components  so  there  is  associated                                                               
volatility.  Buck Consultants  is looking  at all  21 assumptions                                                               
for the past four years  and then recalibrating them to determine                                                               
whether or not they will recommend changes.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  reiterated  he  would like  her  to  outline  the                                                               
difference in future cost between  someone hired on June 30, 2006                                                               
and someone hired on July 2, 2006.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN responded  the difference  is about  two percentage                                                               
points in  normal cost and  the new defined  contribution members                                                               
would bring in no past service cost.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON said  he'd like  to see  the numbers  when they're                                                               
available. He wouldn't dispute that a  Tier I or Tier II employee                                                               
is more  expensive than a  Tier IV  employee, but he  hasn't seen                                                               
any figures outlining the difference  between a Tier III and Tier                                                               
IV  employee.  Before a  decision  is  made  there must  be  some                                                               
understanding of the real cost of a delay, he said.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  THERRIAULT agreed  that the  Finance Committee  would want                                                               
that information.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGGINS  asked if  Tier I benefit  plans would  change in                                                               
any way.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN replied  the benefits for Tier I, Tier  II, and Tier                                                               
III  employees  are  constitutionally  protected  and  would  not                                                               
change.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   HUGGINS  asked   if  that   includes  cost   of  living                                                               
adjustments.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN said  yes. She elaborated saying there  are two post                                                               
retirement pension adjustments (PRPAs).  One is automatic and the                                                               
other is ad hoc. The change  in SB 141 establishes a ceiling such                                                               
that  the  funding  level  must  be at  105  percent  before  the                                                               
administrator can authorize the ad  hoc PRPA. The automatic PRPAs                                                               
are still  benefits that all  members are entitled to  in accords                                                               
with the statute provisions.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON asked  if it's true that  new employees' retirement                                                               
contracts  can't  be changed  retroactively  so  any errors  that                                                               
aren't identified and corrected by  HB 475 won't be changed until                                                               
a future Legislature corrects the mistake.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN explained that Ice  Miller would have the ability to                                                               
file a  revision to the  plan determination letter that  has been                                                               
filed and the  IRS would provide a  determination associated with                                                               
the filings.  If additional changes  are needed, the  State would                                                               
be given  the opportunity  to deal with  the issue(s)  that would                                                               
result in any adverse action.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON clarified  he wasn't asking about  IRS filings that                                                               
could lead to plan revisions;  he was asking about new employees'                                                               
retirement contracts and whether or  not they could be revised if                                                               
errors are subsequently found.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN expressed  confidence  that that  problem has  been                                                               
addressed because the  Department of Law has analyzed  SB 141 and                                                               
dealt with all benefit provisions.  Some of the suggested changes                                                               
are incorporated in HB 475 so  the areas of benefit provision and                                                               
the administration  of the benefits have  undergone due diligence                                                               
and the bill will be implemented as the Legislature intended.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON   referenced  the  timetable  for   receiving  IRS                                                               
determination and asked if the  process might require legislative                                                               
action.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN  replied it would  depend on the  determination from                                                               
the IRS.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  questioned whether  the 90-day deadline  might not                                                               
be problematic if the Legislature isn't in session.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN  said her  understanding is that  the IRS  could ask                                                               
for a  course correction when  it issues the  determination. When                                                               
the  State submits  the correction  it would  include information                                                               
relating to the timing of the next legislative session.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THERRIAULT asked for the will of the committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  motioned to  report SB  293 and  attached fiscal                                                               
note(s)  from committee  with  individual recommendations.  There                                                               
being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                          

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